These seem awfully cheap at the medium level given their really small vulnerability window. Is there a concern we end up with a very spammable and essentially throwaway level of citadels?

What bonus is outpost construction V going to give people if I is all you need to build an XL citadel?

I'm glad to see citadels moving forward. The market speculation should be very nice, as a bonus.

I, of course, have to ask again -- has there been any discussion on how legacy outposts will be handled at their end of life? It would be nice to know, so we can act in the short term.

Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units.

What are the units per run of the fuel block bpo?

So this is linked in the devblog:

CSM Citadel FAQ GÇô A detailed FAQ covering all important aspects of the new structures. Compiled by the CSM in conjunction with CCP. Available in English only. - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEbMx9xUXje3KH4AppvcjSSoALUVtVEaK6ZZ-zy2Lrs/edit?pli=1

Yet in this, there's such things as:



What information in here is reliable and what is not? Clearly it's not up to date.

As Aryth pointed out this basically means that when you buy a 700b bpo, you make copies every 5 days (before bonuses). That means a single BPO will effectively flood the market with copies. It means that anyone buying a bpo will have more copies than they can possibly use, which they'll sell in jita...driving down the cost of a bpc to miniscule prices on your 700b bpo. It means it's a really dumb purchase and it's hard to even justify as a means to ensure you always have the ability to build an XL, or to make a profit, or really any reason. Its especially odd how much less time it is to copy these things than a titan bpo, which requires copies to be usable, and which costs 1/10th of what this costs.

It puts these bpos in a really awkward spot for a 700b investment that just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You don't get exclusivity, you don't have any hope of a profit, I'm not sure why anyone would buy one instead of waiting around for someone to not do the math.

This. Does this mean if I want to run reactions I will need to invest in a 7B isk Large citadel? Because currently every reaction in the eve universe is done at a POS. If the minimum investment becomes 7B isk, you can pretty much kiss the entire T2 and 3 markets goodbye. Only the people with direct access to moons and gases will ever run them, because buying gasses and moon goo off the market will be a complete loss for years.

Copy time or cost probably should be changed - I think copy time is the big outlier here. You have some idea of how many of these structures you expect will exist but my guess is a few dozen at most in the first year. You shouldn't be able to make many more bpcs than structures intended to be deployed. You need a bpc market of course - not every null alliance can be expected to put up 700b to get their foot in the door - but you've got to have it so the bpcs any one bpo can produce are some fraction of expected demand. With a base build time of 30 days, I'd set copy time to at least 30 days and probably much more - unlike supercapitals, there is no need for you to copy this bpo to produce with it safely. You can produce in-station off the bpo itself so copy time can be a freebie for when the bpo is not in use and can be longer than the production time, even several multiples of it without it being a big problem for the market.

The bpo cost of these is 10x what a titan bpo costs, the bpc copy time is ~1/6th of a titan bpo copy time, and most titan bpcs are pretty cheap. Leviathans are the only one where the bpo isn't glutted but even those run only 1-2b each.

I'd probably make it a several month base copy time so that you get people buying the bpos initially so they can get a leg up on deploying them and use of the bpo is tilted more towards manufacturing than copying. At a minimum producing them and copying them should be roughly the same time or at a minimum at the ratio of t2 bpos. Copying in 1/6th of the time to build it seems way, way off.

What about current outposts - to what size of the of citadel they will be changed.

What about NPC stations in sov space - will they be changed?
Finally what about NPC stations in NPC null - if you make them destructible - i think 'next day' MOA , or SOE will be homeless .

But... why? That makes absolutely no sense. That's like making a Doomsday Mount part of the requirements to build a freighter. Or to make a more relevant example, to have a freighter blueprint that doesn't require Capital Cargo Bay component. If you're gonna do something, do it right.

What Skills will be needed to deploy Citadels in Space?

Will Cloning Centers be fittable in WH-Space? And if yes, how will they work there?

I wana know whats gona happen with those of us that have POS bpos. Will they get converted to equivalent citadel ones or will we somehow get reimbursed the isk we spent to buy them?

I see the CSM has been busy. More nul sec crap of no interest to empire dwellers. My mates and I have around 30 accounts mothballed and mothballed they will remain.

Eve will die slowly one nul sec expansion at time.

CSM, hang your heads in shame.

I'm glad we're finally talking about build components for Citadels. I have to say, it's pretty much what I expected, and that disappoints me somewhat.

I'm glad the PI requirements are staying equivalent so there is still demand for products in the PI chain.

The plan to use T1 and T2 Salvage will greatly increase the value of salvage from Relic Sites, as well as salvaging wrecks from sites. So the planned change will be a net boost to the value of Relic Sites - but I don't see anything in the devblog on helping fix value for Data Sites.

The current Faction POS Tower and Module BPCs are only found in Data Sites via Exploration. Since these will be made obsolete when Citadels come along, I was hoping there would be some mention of how they would be replaced. Since the Citadels are not Faction specific anymore, that precludes the base structure having faction versions.

In the devblog it was stated "If and when we release Tech II or faction modules the material build-up will be properly modified to match." So that means there aren't plans to release Faction Citadel Modules to replace Faction POS Modules at this launch?

The "High-Tech" items, as well as the Faction Materials (Positron Cords, Electric Conduits) that used to be for building Interfaces for invention before they were removed from the game still have no real use in manufacturing. I was hoping maybe they would find some use in the Sovereignty or Citadel Structure build chain to give them some value.

CCP RedDawn stated in the current Exploration Site feedback that there is a plan to replace the POS based drops once Citadels come out, but I don't see anything in this Devblog on how. Could you elaborate, or is this still in the works?

Hmm... I find it interesting that, with one exception, CCP Ytterbium has only been responding to posts by Goons. (The one exception is a TEST post.)

Is everyone else's post simply being ignored? Where are the conspiracy trolls when you need them? lol....

SUPER excited for all of this. Just saying but I want my own death star..

Some details on where they can be anchored would be nice (bit off topic sorry).

Citadel looks like the best expansion since they added wormholes and T3's

Can I anchor one of these on a gate and blap stuff as it jumps in?? Can they be anchored in range of each other stations and shoot each other? etc etc

Is this actually going to be the case CCP, or is it an oversight? I want to know whether I need to start building an in-system freighter or not. Dev blog says freighters needed to deploy a large, but by the volume an orca will be able to do it with currently listed value. I don't want to have to build a freighter in my wormhole but I will if I need to.

Just yes or no on that. Do I need a freighter to deploy a large, or can I do it with an orca?

There seems to be some confusion about overview and warping etc

If you have docking rights, the citadel shows up on overview

If you don't

Open scanner window and it should up green, like an anomoly now and you can warp to it, no dscan or probes needed, but you get ZERO intel until you arrive at the citadel, at which point you can scan it, see who is docked, scan its fitting etc, it can also lock and shoot you.

Obviously for high sec any aggression requires a wardec, citadels will have a permanent green gun safety

Can a Citadel change their fit on the fly with weapons and ammo?


I picture a sub-capital fleet come in on the final round and the persons Citadel is fitted for them and then when the timer starts, in come the Capitals with no way to defend.

No. Slots can not be changed while the Citadel is under attack (any time the shields, armor, hull is not 100%).

So not even during the repair cycle.

Hmmm I tend to remember we stated after shields were gone. You make me doubt because I can see some crazy module swapping game in combat. Let me double-check and come back at you on that one.

So which one is oversight? Do we need orca or freighter for large citadel?

Also have any thought been put on replacement mechanics for current moon coverage in WH as defense mechanics? I remember during Structure Town Hall there was discussions about it and some proposal from CCP side but nothing mentioned about it in blog or during presentation.

During presentation there was (very brief) slide that showed that RF in WH will be shorter, but it was very quick so I could not look at it and it was not mentioned by presenter at all (something something only 24h for second rf???) Could You elaborate on how current plans for RF are loking, especially in WH?

Also have any thought been put on probplem of trust, access to player hangars by directors? With poses (unless You use those stupid personal hangars) thief can only take what he can cary by himself, everything else is in corporate structures accessible by directors. With new citadels he have unlimited personal hangar to take everything from Your corp You gave access too. We in WH use shared ships in many situations (no reason for EVERY member to get for example a WH-collapsing BS when you only need few for entire corp, better to have corp accessible ones). A thief or a spy would need to take those ships one at a time, now he just scoops them all to his hangar.

PLEASE stop saying player "Stations" they are called OUTPOSTS

Normally, I wouldn't care but the difference between an outpost and a station kinda matters here and is causing a cubic fuckton of confusion

Disappointing

I suppose I can just wait for the number but if you know what it is going to be, will it fit in a Rorqual?

will we be able to construct these in Wormholes ... or will we have to haul them in